Saturday, 2 May 2009

Bollywood vs Muslims ?????

Assalam sister
Im scared I disagree with you more than I agree…
On the ‘agreeing’ side-



Yes, Bollywood shows Muslims as terrorists, women being suppressed and an on the whole sadder side of the Muslim life in India. And surely it doesn’t help in bridging gaps coz films are very important in an average Indian’s life.
Cricket and Bollywood are more than just entertainment, one is India’s heart, the other is her mind.
But, I’d like to say that you have only looked at one side of the coin.
Firstly, bollywood hasn’t always been showing Muslims as villains…. If you have seen the older movies, you’d know that villains were usually ‘Mogambo’ ‘Tiger’ or simply ‘Boss’…. It’s only very recently that Muslims are being shown as terrorists.. and im sure everyone knows why…..
I’d say… it’s only human nature to revel in the present!!!! And at present ‘terrorism’ is a FACT. And it’s also a fact that Muslims are the ones mostly found involved. I remind you.. a lot of crime is happening- mostly by non-muslims, but I doubt if these crimes are in the name of religion… ‘religion’ is being brought into the mess mostly by the ‘Muslim terrorists’. No wonder bollywood shows that….after all, films need to make money… !!!! if the producers continue to make films on the golden era of muslims and forget all that muslims are doin now, people wud stop watching films altogether.

Secondly, I think we need to look at bollywood in a better light
Though I believe that Muslims became terrorists only after being wronged, and im also against people who show one side of the Muslim picture….
I’m equally against showing one side of the ‘non-Muslim’ picture…..
Let’s take bollywood,
You have mentioned a few films, some of which I haven’t seen, I’d comment only on the ones I Have..

Mission Kashmir-



bolly shows :->an Indian Muslim boy becomes a terrorist. The same bolly shows in the same movie that his father (sanjay dutt),also a Muslim is a dedicated Police Officer married to a Hindu, the boy’s gal frnd, a journalist, is also a Muslim and NOT a terrorist. The film shows both kind of Muslims, the good Indian; the bad Indian. If a Muslim does not want to see the terrorist being a ‘Muslim’, then he shud go and stop terrorism in Kashmir…. It wud automatically get stopped being portrayed in films. If a film shows Muslims as villains, I wud feel bad… but, if a film shows Muslims as villains as well as Muslims as heroes- I see no reason to take offence.

Fiza-



again the boy is a terrorist, but Fiza, the boy’s sister is NEITHER a terrorist, NOR a suppressed al. she searches for her brother to reform him.. In a scene where someone says her something bout Pakistan supportism, she says that those who wanted to be Pakis left India in 1947, those who remained are all Indians…….i didn’t quite understand why you wrote fiza under the hindu-Muslim love story category.

Veer Zaara- its more of a Hind-Pak love story than Hindu-Muslim love story (coincidentaly India is majority Hindu and Pak is majority Muslim). I have heard many Pakis complain on T.V that India always shows the gal to be a Muslim Paki and never the other way round. It’s true coz marriages take place both ways.. but my question is why on earth wud India show gals leaving India for a grt Paki man????? That wud be the last thing I wud want to see in a film. For each country, their objective is right. What is independence for Pakistan, wud always and ALWAYS remain a Partition for India. Pakistan was created, born but India was broken into three pieces. And that is sumthing no Indian will evr forget, no Indian should ever forget.
Long bak one of my cousin sisters was married off to Karachi, twas an arrange marriage. The rest of the family was very upset with the gals parents…. A few years back, a cousin brother got married to a Paki, again an arrange marriage…. And now we r like, ‘Fine, it’s settled!’
And for any other film, me thinks there’s an equal number of films showing Hindu gals and Hindu boys… and even if the latter is more, I’m fine coz’ after all Hindus ARE a majority…. So y not let them have a slightly upper hand in some way and not make much fuss over it.

Zubeida- it’s based on a true story of a director’s mom,don remember the name. and well, zubeida isn’t shown all very happy even after being married to the hindu prince.

Besides I think you need to see a few more movies to learn that Indan cinema is not as biased as some Indian Muslims and almost all Pakis claim.

Anwar- shows a Muslim as a victim of terrorism

Aamir-



shows a Muslim as a ‘victim’ of terrorism

Iqbal- no terrorism at all…. A plain movie based on a muslim boy and cricket.

Dev- again Muslims as the ‘victims’

Firraq- a day into the life post Gujarat riots.

Fanaa- a Muslim terrorist and a GOOD Muslim gal.

Wednesday-

based on terrorism… shows a common man fight against terrorism in his own way- the religion of the common man is never revealed- showing that a common man, belonging to no matter which religion, is AGAINST terrorism. There are 3 main active cops in the movie who r directly involved against terrorists and one is shown to be a Muslim.

Dil Se- based on Non-Muslim terrorism

Another fact bout Muslims being shown as suppressed and backward is that Muslims in India ARE backward wen compared to the other religions. Yes there are backward Hindus and films are made based on them too, so I think its ok to have films showing the backwardness of Muslims.

You as a Non-Indian Muslim wud watch these movies in a Muslim perspective alone and so you feel bad. But I am an Indian Muslim….. and I cant ignore either of my identities.
I feel bad wen I see a Muslim being shown as a terrorist in almost all the ‘terrorism’ based movies coz I know, “films re-enforce wrong stereotypes” but then I say, “hey, look the cop is Muslim too” and im like.. “Alrite…. Big deal!!”

And well…. Maybe bollywood is catering to a very large non-Indian audience…. That doesn’t change the fact that Bollywood IS Indian…….and SHOULD show the Indian outlook on society.
So… Hollywood portrays India with the Foreign/ International outlook (the recent slumdog millionaire craze!!!!) and Bollywood also starts portraying India with an International outlook……….. then where does the Indian outlook go??????? Dustbin????

Is bollywood showing Christians or Sikhs or Parsis or Jews or Buddhists or Jains or any of the other minorities in India as occuping the centre stage in films, the religion of lead characters??????????? No!
Bollywood is centred around Hindus with a dash of other religions……because .. that is PRECISELY the way 1 bilion and more Indians are!!!!!!!!

Bollywood shows the ‘culprit’ and ‘victim’ nature of Muslims equally and assuming the balance is heavier on the ‘culprit’ side….. I d still think it’s ok.:given that invaders from west Asia- Muslims- had plundered India. Given that one fine morning a man woke up to decide forming a new country that wud be named the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Given that this new country formed never ceases to try expanding its border in the east. Given that separatists- Muslims- have made another partition almost inevitable…..
Given all these things, I wudn mind a tilt of the balance to the ‘culprit’ side, if at all such a tilt exists…

If we still haave bollywood Muslims showing good Muslims… I think it’s the highest example of tolerance that can be taught to the world..
So, if anyone dosnt understand “TOLERANCE”
Come visit “Incredible !ndia” :) :)

P.S-
I started this as a comment to a sister’s post… but ended it so long that I tthink I mite just make it a post in Jalpari.

Newaz, didnt sleep ..:( gotto go for duty now :(
Tc
Allah hafiz




27 comments:

NiDa said...

I appreciate you taking out some of your time to give me such a lengthy response :)! I very much welcome your perspective.

Lets see, where do I begin:
1) You are absolutely right, I cannot claim that the Indian film industry has 'always' portrayed Muslims in a negative manner, since I have been watching only more recent films from the late 90's and the very recent ones since 2000 and on. So I concur with you sister. However, my main point was to grasp the political agenda between the film industry - and mind you it is not exclusive to Bollywood. Every film industry does it and Hollywood is filled with them, as I gave couple examples of those too. So while it may not have always been negative of Islam it has certainly progressed to this stage - at least in my opinion - looking at it from a political perspective.

2) I am neither Pakistani, nor Indian, so I come from an objective view on this issue. I have both Muslim Indian and Pakistani friends. I can understand the tensions, however to claim that we see mostly Muslims 'doing' the terrorism in the name of religion is precisely my point dear. Who is responsible for us seeing mostly Muslim terrorists? The Media. I have not yet seen one Bollywood film which has samples of the RSS carrying out terrorist acts upon innocent civilians and if there are such movies than please do let me know. Then we would see a more balanced perspective. I acknowledged in my post that Bollywood is intended for the Indian general public, and that is ok but once the media is selective of an audience it automatically carries a bias. Have you heard of Arundhati Roy? She has some great points to make about the Indian Media and the biases of Media in general. You might like to check it out.

3) I guess you are right, in some ways they are trying to balance the screen with a good Muslim vs bad Muslim scenario --- but what good does that do? Fanna was so ridiculous in the end - I am Sorry. Theya re painting a good Muslim to be a Nationalist - to love their kin and country above Islam - and I cannot accept that. And most of the films which contain this duality of good and bad, the good Muslim is the one who 'loves India' is 'secular' and 'modern/moderate muslim' in the sense that he/she shared the ideals of what the Indian Government WANT Muslims to be juxtaposed to the 'bad' Muslim who is 'practicing' 'does not like 'nationalism' and fights for a greater cause than for the virtual borders of the country' and then they bring in religion! That is what I am talking abut when I mean politics of Bollywood.

When I was writing that post I was extremely tired so I may have omitted certain points - given I have not been sleeping much this week lol. BUT thank you for the response.

I have just thought of another 'ok' movie, which does a pretty good job in balancing both the Muslim and Hindu stories within - DEV. It was worth a watch!

Be Well sis, and I hope this clarifies things a little.

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

Assalam sister
You are very right in sayin that media projects islam in a bad way. . . But i thank God for people like Arundhati Roy and MANY others who do understand d situation. . . If there are people who are hiding d gud side of Muslims . . . There are many if not too many who do speak of the injustices. . . If we go on talkin bout the ones who are wrong , what different are we from them? And by 'we' i mean we indians.

i agree with you that most non-Muslims are of the belief that only someone who keeps 'nation above islam' is a good Indian. And that is coz the people who do keep 'Islam above India' and yet can die for India are not speakin out much. Its a fact . . .
indian muslims are opposed to terrorism, yet these individual's voice is drowned by the silence of many others and is creating an impression that a Muslim (in the true sense) cant be an Indian.

just like there are people who are stereotyping muslims to be bad. And that hurts us and we feel why are they doing this to us? Why cant they see the good in us ?
likewise There are more than enuf muslims who are stereotyping the non-muslims to be totally inconsiderate . . . Which is not the case. . . And you would find hindus wondering where are they goin wrong that they are makin the indian muslims so unhappy. And this is causing unrest among them. This further leads to a backlash in more anti-muslim feelings. When there is too much islamphobia , we should speak against it. But by the way its goin, i dont think bollywood has reached that stage yet so that it may be called islamophobic. .


you have never seen a movie dealing with 'state sponsored Terrorism'? ? Dev itself shows it. . . It refers to RSS. . . . There are many such films . . . Any film talkin of anti Muslim riots is talkin of Rss . . . They create some other names. . . But its rss they refer to.

and exactly sister, you are neither an indian nor a pakistani, you would have a too objective view on this matter. But at the end of the day its an indian muslim who lives in india and practices islami. . . . What matters is how an indian muslim is projected. What he thinks and how he acts.

what i wanted to say is that, bollywood is not yet that bad . . What Happens in the future remains to be seen. But in the present date, things are pretty ok. Alhamdulillah ...

Nazish Rahman said...

Nice post...would just like to say that Indian Film Industry as a matter of fact even Hollywood has been fair and never showed any religion in a wrong manner. Indian constitution is the best in the world and we are one of the largest democracies of the world. As Indian we believe being Human is more important.

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

Assalam nazish
thanks :) and ya i know that bout bollywood. I dont see too many foreign movies, so cant say bout them. . . And yes, as an indian muslim am blessed to belong to the most beautiful of all religions and most beautiful of all countries.

NiDa said...

OK Sister, I see your point, but my problem lies within Nationalism!

Why do you have to be a nationalist to be considered a good Muslim? And I don't know why we have to constantly be apologetic to the rest of the world for a few bad apples - this does not make the whole Islamic ummah rotten!

I cannot accept people reverting me to nationalism so that I may be accepted into their society - likewise, why does one absolutely HAVE TO appease the ideologies of a government in order to be an 'ok' Muslim in India. I respect that you like your country sis, but claiming that India is exceptionally tolerant is an illusion - I am sorry!

I would never claim my country or any country for that matter to be the perfect nation because there is no place in this entire world which could be called absolutely 'democratic' --- one is kidding himself if he actually believes that!!!

I respect your opinion sister - and those Muslims who are non-nationalist and you say are not specking out do NOT have to die for India or any other "country" for that matter --- in order to be understood and not labeled as -nonextremist - I feel that people should not have to be put into that position, constantly having to 'prove' that they are innocent --- its like "you are presumed guilty, untill proven innocent" and not the way it's supposed to be "you are presumed innocent untill proven guilty"!!!

Here is an earlier post I did on terrorism and the Mumbai bombings --- http://theidealmuslimah.blogspot.com/2008/12/semantics-of-terrorism.html

And perhaps this one may be of interest as well.... http://theidealmuslimah.blogspot.com/2008/12/al-wala-wal-bara-to-love-and-to-hate.html

No I have not seen many movies showing Indian Hindu or otherwise terrorist groups as the protagonists in the film --- and yes I did agree that Dev did a fairly decent job in balancing both stories. But many others which do not do a fair balancing act are outnumbering the good.

I don't mean to sound rude, and I have no problem with Indian Muslims - just the nationalism part irks me very much in any culture really!

Much love sis, fisabilillah! :)

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

Assalam sister
The word nationalism, as far as my knowledge goes means a high grade patriotic feeling towards ur country and believeing that ur country is better than the rest….

U hav a problem with nationalism???
Well, I don’t.
I AM a patriotic person…. And I seriously believe that my country is the best.
A person who doesn’t believe his/her country to be the best is either a plain non-nationalist person like u say u r,
OR
Hasn’t got much from his country
OR
Doesn’t want to give bak to his country wat he has got.
I don’t fall in any of these categories… and im sure most of the Indians don’t.
Our national song is
“Saare Jahaan Se Achha Hindostan Humara”
I, for one, live each of these words.
So, I see no harm in being a nationalist.

Whereas if in ur opinion nationalism means to downplay ur religion wen compared to nation… lemme tell you ‘we the people of India’ follow a different meaning of the word.
India is the birthplace of many religions.. in no way can the Indian psyche downplay religion. Nationalism is undoubtedly keeping ur country highest but it’s never at the cost of religion…..
‘secular’ truly means ‘not religious’ … hence the French ban on hijab…. but In India ‘secular’ means a Hijab clad gal, a tilak bearing Hindu, and a turban wearing Sikh can all work together at the same level in the Government.
Likewise ‘nationalism’ does not by any means disregarding ur religion for ‘we the people of India’.

And hence I see no harm in loving ur country.
And also, I never mentioned that ‘a nationalist is a good Muslim’….why on Earth would a hindu want to know if I am a good muslim or not.
You need to be a nationalist to be a good CITIZEN of ur country…. At least ‘my country’.
Wen a Muslim does not understand his country, wen a Muslim does not understand that 85% of his countrymen are non-Muslims… that he wakes up, goes to work, goes shopping, goes to the theatre, comes back, has a peaceful sleep… all this among 85% non-muslim…..safe and sound among 85% non-muslim…. And then when a little spark happens somewhere he goes bout shouting how cruel the 85% non-Muslims are…. He is being anti-national.
For a person to shout at the sparks against him….. he needs to respect and admire the love he is shown……….by the 85% non-muslims.

And I don't know why we have to constantly be apologetic to the rest of the world for a few bad apples - this does not make the whole Islamic ummah rotten!No.. I never mentioned being apologetic….i will never apologize for wat any ‘indian muslim terrorist’ has done…. But I will never FORGET what an ‘indian muslim terrorist’ did to India just like I wont forget what or how a hindu wud have ever discriminated against the ‘indian muslim’. If I choose to forget the bad done by my community and remember the bad done by the hindu community.. I’m being a piece of shit…
I choose not to be a piece of shit.

I cannot accept people reverting me to nationalism so that I may be accepted into their society - Accepted into their society????????????????????????????????
I assume u r talking bout urself…. And not me coz
THIS IS MY SOCIETY….. I am not an arab trying to mingle among Indians… I AM an Indian.
Again, I repeat ‘nationalism’ in India does not mean disregarding ur religion.

likewise, why does one absolutely HAVE TO appease the ideologies of a government in order to be an 'ok' Muslim in India.Which ideology of the Indian government are u talking bout ?????
Which ideology of the government is so gross that following it may make a ‘lesser Muslim’??????
The ideology of letting others practice their religion and me practising mine??????
The ideology of taking into consideration others’ religious sentiments????
The ideology of not becoming ‘terrorists’?
Coz’ well… these are the only ideologies required of me to be an ‘indian’…. I don’t understand what make syou go on saying ‘muslim’… why wud ANYONE be bothered if im a good muslim or not…
They wud only be bothered if im being a good Indian.
And to be a good Indian I don’t need to do anything that goes against my religion… unless of course, if u r of the belief that we shud not let a hindu practice Hinduism.. a chriatian practice Christianity and the like….
In that case… all the muslims who are lliving in any country with a non-muslim majority shud rush to the arab world….
OR
Become terrorists and kill the non-Muslims.


and if the ideology is not hampering Islam, why not follow it??? why not follow a part of ur culture? why not follow the law of ur country? are you allowed to flog women for zina in america? in india too, we r not allowed... every country has its law... and these laws have to be folowd in every country...
no law in india hampers my religion. in fact, "right to religious freedom" is a fundamental right guaranteed to me by my consttution... if i follow this part of the law... y not follow the rest of the law?

I respect that you like your country sis, but claiming that India is exceptionally tolerant is an illusion - I am sorry!
Alhamdulillah I love my country!
And yes I claim India is exceptionally tolerant.
Do I say that Muslims are being not given apartments by many builders?
Yes
Do I say that there have been anti-Muslim riots?
Yes
Do I say that ‘Indian Muslims’ many times face the situation of being called ‘Pakistani’ (calling an Indian muslim a ‘pakistani’ is a top grade slang)?
Yes
Do I say that every now and then we here some discrimination against Muslims?
Yes

Now…. Doesn’t this happen in every non-muslim majority country??????/
And which non-muslim majority country has a reason greater than India to hate muslims????
With the history India has… the muslim community in India wud have been persecuted long ago, had Indian ‘ideologies’ been like some other countries.
When the great Muslim spoiler of the Independence took place, India was divided to give rise to the ‘Islamic Republic Of Pakistan’…. And yet India did not become the ‘Hindu Republic of India’.
If Muslims have thrived all these years in spite of all the riots… all the terrorist attacks and everything else….
(not considering the era when the initial Muslim invaders plundered India)

I can think of no better word than ‘tolerance’.. on part of each community. And well, just as a reminder… India is approx 85% non-Muslim….so, we can assume who cud have done wat? Who hasn’t done wat? And so, who shud be told tolerant?

I assume you have never lived in India sister.. correct me if you have. And if a Bosnian Muslim living in America with no first hand experience of living in india is telling an Indian Muslim living in India that ‘India being an exceptionally tolerant country is an illusion’…im sorry sister. I didn’t know that the meaning of ‘illusion’ has changed.

I would never claim my country or any country for that matter to be the perfect nation because there is no place in this entire world which could be called absolutely 'democratic' --- one is kidding himself if he actually believes that!!!Yes no nation is perfect.. coz nothing is perfect.
No mother is perfect.. coz no human is perfect.
But still… isn’t ‘my mom the best’?
Well.. then… ‘my country is also the best’.

You are free not to consider ur country the best… no one’s forcing you to.
In fact I wud like it if others don’t consider their country to be the best.. coz it only adds on to my belief of MY country being the best.
So thanks, in that way.

As an Indian, Saare Jahaan Se Achha Hindostan Humara…
There are many negatives in India, - there’s corruption, there’s pollution etc etc etc etc…
Just like my mom cant sew clothes well, she’s als really bad at gardening…
But well.. my mom is the best , isn’t she?
So…. Definitely, Saare Jahaan Se Achha Hindostan Humara.

I respect your opinion sister - and those Muslims who are non-nationalist and you say are not specking out do NOT have to die for India or any other "country" for that matter --- in order to be understood and not labeled as -nonextremist -‘nationalism’ again depends on wat it means to you in ur culture… and me in my culture….
And to die for the country or not is again dependent on the person… I wud love to die for my country.
Or are you telling me that to ‘prove’ myself to be a Muslim to the ‘NON-INDIAN MUSLIM WORLD’ I shud NOT DIE for India.
Like if, America decides to invade India (for any reason… ) I shud let the 85% non-muslims fight and die for India while the 15% muslims sit back and relax… coz.. well.. they are muslims and to die for India wud mean that they are trying ‘to prove they are non-extremist’… and that wud be a defeat of the ummah???


I feel that people should not have to be put into that position, constantly having to 'prove' that they are innocent --- its like "you are presumed guilty, untill proven innocent" and not the way it's supposed to be "you are presumed innocent untill proven guilty"!!!
Very true.
A muslim shudn be put into a position to prove they are not extremists..
I have blogged bout it many times..
And so also, ANY Indian shud not be made to prove that he is tolerant..
If I, as an Indian Muslim, go on saying that ‘this is injustice to the Indian Muslims and that is injustice to the Indian Muslims’ not for once looking at all the ‘justices’… shudn I be made to prove myself then???? After all im asking others to prove themselves.

Shudnt it be equal both ways?

I shall inshaAllah read the posts…

No I have not seen many movies showing Indian Hindu or otherwise terrorist groups as the protagonists in the film --- and yes I did agree that Dev did a fairly decent job in balancing both stories. But many others which do not do a fair balancing act are outnumbering the good.Sad that you haven’t seen much of the anti-Muslim riots films…
But I still hold that Bollywood isn’t demonizing Islam. you shud see the movies i have recommended.. they show how a muslim is made a victim to terrorism.

I don't mean to sound rude, and I have no problem with Indian Muslims - just the nationalism part irks me very much in any culture really!O ya! I know that most of the non-Indian Muslims look down upon the Indian Muslims … esp for loving India…
Thanks to the sister country…
People are of the belief (consciously or subconsciously) that any Muslim who was or is ‘good’ shud be in Pakistan.. whether Pak has lived up to be ‘Islamic’ or not is not of much concern as long as she is under a Green Banner.
Who would want to stay back in a country ful of Hindus???? Hindus along with whom they struggled for independence…. Hindus along with whom they suffered lathis and bullets by the British….. Hindus with whom they marched behind Gandhi… who wud live with these Hindus?
Only the ‘bad’ Muslims!!!!
and this part of my reply is to all the people who feel indian muslims are the 'lessers'.

Like I told sister… you being a non-Indian Muslim are free to hate India, free to hate Indian Muslims, free to believe that Indian Muslims are being discriminated against no ends, free to believe that Indian Muslims are sissy enuf to tolerate all the crap, free to believe that there is a very wrong portrayal of Indian Muslims by the media, free to believe that Indian muslims are actually a very well-off community only being shown as backward by the media.
I, as an Indian Muslim, am free to disagree with everythin that you say.

We are free to be in an illusion … whether you, whether me.

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

salaam again sister
as for the first post..
i totally agree.
i mentioned it in my reply too that we shudn apologize for wat we havnt done. id written a post too on the very same thing.

as regards the next post..
i assume you are trying to tell me how wrong i am in loving india.. wen india is a non-muslim majority.
and that means... you have no love whatsoever for america.
in that case, you are just sponging off america, ready to deceive america any moment for ANY Muslim, whther this Muslim is right or wrong...
if thats the case then you shud leave america b4 tellin me to stop lovin india coz ur case sounds worse. I atleast, love the place im living in.

and if you mean that we shudn love a kafir who stands against faith (as wat i think it means), what makes you say that India has stood against faith??????
the riots???
was every single indian involved in that?????

if you dont want to apply the "one does means all have done' theory to muslims, why dyu want to apply it for others?

im ready to apply it for others if im ready to let others apply it for me....
but, i don want to be considered a culprit fpr someone else's fault and so.. i wudn consider every hindu an enemy for someone else's fault.


i am not friends with a single person who has shown signs of anti-ISlamism...
and no one knows wats in anyone's heart.
im not scared of hindus, sister...

most of the verses deal with not being in team with the kafirs... i think it means in matters of faith... correct me if im wrong..
if its faith, wel.. i dont assist kafirs against faith, i wont inshaAllah..
and if it means no relations whatsoever with non-Muslims... i think none of us are ever entering heaven.
btw didnt Huzur S.A.W love Abu Talib?
or does the love mean participating in their practises? well.. i dont.

other verses speak of muslim being a brothe to muslim...the only thing i can think of where someone can question an indian muslims authenticity, is of the india pakistan issue...so my grandmother shud hav fleed to pakistan. and every muslim group in any place in the world shud come together and form a country...
so that justifies all the killings ... doesnt it?
then why say terrorism is not related to religion but only politics... arent they trying to create countries coz that's the command.???

inshaAllah wen ther'll be a khilafah, we'll be under one rule.
until then there will be countries.
countries existed in Huzur S.A.W ke times also.
if the country isnt harming me... but i feel that this country MAY harm me in future... and so i create another country....but some others feel that there is no need to fear.... but they shud nevertheless go along with the former group coz they are the brothers...
ok
so eac time a muslim feels insecure, the whole community makes itself insecure to give company to the brother???

is that wat the verses mean?

i constantly hear pakis speak of how indian muslims shud make hijra to pakistan..... coz india is a non muslim land..
well... why then did they not make a hijra in 1947???? why didnt they just go away... cud have saved a lot of lives...
is that wat it means to stand with the brother????
even if you think your brother is behaving in a crazy way?


i wonder if loving a brother means accompanying him in somethin you feel is useless.. somthing u feel dsnt affect ur faith.neither increases nor decreases.

NiDa said...

Darling,

I am afraid you are putting words into my mouth. Listen, the whole argument is getting a little out of hand.

I am not judging Indians nor the Indian society - I am judging the media and the politics behind it.
Sure I can never understand the primary perspective you bring to the table, because you live in India day in and day out, but I try to be educated on these issues and understand them from a secondary perspective - that is not a crime I hope. I learn from non-Muslim Indian authors who themselves have an issue with Indian politics, like Arundhati Roy:

Please take a look at her Speech/Documentary: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4100322562082185221
Perhaps then she may explain it better in her own words what truly anti-nationalism means.

Fine, sister - you consider your country to be like your mother - a country which has been created as a result of British imperialism and foreign intervention, of corrupt politics and incapable brutish leaders, just like every other country in the world has been. A mother who has been forced to give birth to the situation you are in today and has not given birth on her own will. She has been raped and pillaged and taken advantage of - but yes she is still your 'mother' but you cannot find what happened to her to be legitimate and true OR unfair and dehumanizing at the same time.

Above the flag, above the country of origin and above any 'national pride' I consider myself HUMAN - Muslim. We need to be humans and not robotic ideology suckers who will blindly internalize all that a virtual country something non-existent is dictating to us - who we are, what she should be, how to act, what to think what to speak, where to speak, what to wear what to eat and etc.
I refuse to be a slave of nationalism, of human fallibility of a man-made illusion of 'perfection' and 'democracy' and I truly hope you realize how dangerous nationalism is.

Yes I am Bosnian Muslim living in America but not from free choice, but from being persecuted for being Muslim and being forced to live in and be part of this bloodsucking empire. I understand human suffering, and I have experienced the ultimate crime against humanity first hand so I fully understand what the most impoverished Indians feel, their difficulties and their powerlessness, as well as powerless Pakistanis and Kashimiris. I hope you understand my intention was not to judge you or any other Indian but the media and the film industry who are not helping to make any situation better but keep prolonging the false stereotyping and hate between different groups.

That is all -
As'salaam Aleykum :)

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

Exactly, she is my mother. . . Whether she has been raped, has been forced to give birth to a situation,or formed by corrupt british officers into an Indian union of princely states,
my mother has stood the test of times. This can be known by takin a walk on a road in India, any road. Of course, this can be seen only by her children. . .And not by other people for whom she will always be an 'aunty', if anything at all. And since, no one sees all that my mother gives me, i wonder if they can decide whether i should love her or not.

and again exactly, we are HUMANS and so we should be humans to all. . . And should be 'selective humans'. . . . We should be to others what we want them to be to us. Irrespective of 'ideology' of one's country. If we want others to understand us, we need to understand them.
And my country, like most other countries tells me to act in a particular way, speak in a particular way, behave in a particular way, a way that respects all. This is the law in my country, like every country has a law. Sayin not to follow it would be 'lawlessness'. . . If there is a country on this planet which allows disrespect to be shown to others, segregations among the people in the country, the people there are most welcome to be selfish fools.
thats not the scene in india.

and coming to Ms. arundhati roy, i respect her a lot for being what she is and telling all that she says. Yet, she is after all ONE single individual. And she is not more indian than me, or the shopkeepers in the shops outside, or the nuns who run my hostel. We all have our views, . . . A billion indians, a billion views.
you are free to choose anyone of it.
there are many authors writing bout how the politicians are biased towards indian muslims, increasing their reservations each day, storming people who speak anything against the 'beard' and blah blah. . .they have their own view on nationalism. Their own view on 'who' is being ill-treated in india, muslims or the hindus. . . Maybe someone in romania would read that and have a view on Indian nationalism completely different from what you have.
thats ok. Like i told, every non-indian is free to believe whatever.

for me to know what nationalism means in India, i didnt need to 'read' or 'find out'. . . All i needed was to be born here.
if there are Muslims loving India like crazy in spite of the 'discriminations', there must be Something after all, that makes them feel that way . No one loves to be suppressed.
im sorry for the people who haven been treated well in their countries, . . . Not me. I have had a beautiful life. And the number of powerless Muslims you find in India will be way less than the 'normal' muslims. But of course you will choose to look at that small population, just like narendra modi would love to look at the little muslim population that becomes terrorist. Not much difference in the two views.
powerless kashmiris ?. . . Yes.
Powerless pakistanis ? ? Wow ! A people who created a whole country for themselves . . . Powerless . . . Wow!
or powerless coz they couldn create their country without the graces of their native land. Again a wow! Wow both ways!

if muslims being portrayed by bollywood as terrorists (and ignorin how bollywood also shows the victimization of muslims) seems such a bigger issue to you than many other things. . . A third wow!
tc sister.
walaykum assalam

Chica said...

ok ladies - i am pakistani muslim but british pakistani muslim lol... (man all these labels thse days!)

and i havent seen any of those movies... im not into bollywood but i am thinking some of these need watching, fanaa, fiza for example.

the onyl one i seen form that list is dil se... and that was cool... i just remember the song from it, was wicked. chaiya chaiya!!!


from what i remember indian movies try to be very dreamy and fantasty like... its not real but there can be something quite magical about them and people buy into that. its interesting eggtting an indian muslim perspective on it.i think you make some very valid points, all this is very tpoical riht now so its natural to make movies about it...

would also be good to mentions films like border too though... they were pre 911 movies

i think i need to go and watch these movies- it seems like a mixed bag to be honest. some sound like they convey muslims badly and others seem to give a balanced view.

whatever, we must remember that terrorism is not on!! and yes, some people may feel driven to it, but this is where we come in as one ummah and make use of the power of dua for those who suffering and to utlise all the means we have been fortunate enough to be provided with in order to take some action... like our prohet and the sahabbah would have... right?

Chica said...

ok so just had a quick skim through the rest of the posts and like... seriously why the debate on nationalism now? we are muslims, thats who we are. we are one ummah.

yes my roots are pakistani and thats my culture, but my heritage lies in the lands of saudi arabia. i was born in england and spent most of my childhood in and around eurpoe.

I just cant be patriotic about any of the countires I have lived in ... why because look at world around us and look at waht patriotism has done to people. you say those people who chose not to be indian let in 1947 but NO THEY DID NOT. my relatives did not have any choice... they had to leave when the lives of thier little ones (i.e my parents) were out in danger!

its a really bold statement to make to say india is the best. yes the country is diverse and been thtourhg many things, but there are many other nations that have also stood the test of time! im sure they can claim they are the best.

lets not forget islam teaches us humility, equality ... one person is not better than any other... and inly allah will judge us eventually, and decide our final home for us. on thagt day it wont matter if you are indian, chinese, polish, icelandic!

NiDa said...

Beautiful Chica sis!

That is essentially what I was getting at - may I quote: "lets not forget islam teaches us humility, equality ... one person is not better than any other... and only Allah will judge us eventually, and decide our final home for us. on that day it wont matter if you are indian, chinese, polish, icelandic!"

Darling JalPari,

First of all you need to distinguish patriotism from nationalism: Patriotism is when you love your homeland and it predates the invention of a nation-state. Nationalism is a relatively recent phenomenon - since the 1920's and after WWI. Nationalism has created the illusion of 'confined borders' meaning a 'state' which is meaningless to most people living within those borders except in Europe where this idea actually made sense because they knew where majority of Germans, Anglo-Saxons, Salvs, Franks lived so they knew exactly where to make that 'line' which is non-tangible and non-existent. Now the Colonials tried to replicate that idea through out the world and it turned out to be a disaster! Why do you think Africa is in turmoil and in constant warfare? Why do you think there are tensions among India and Pakistan today? Because of the mare invention of a 'nation-state.' Nationalism therefore, harbors the side effects of colonialism where you are led to believe that the borders you have are actually 'your country' and that 'Pakistan' should not have existed at all! Here is the catch - Now an Indian will say: "Sara Jahaan se Acha Hindustan Hamara" while the Pakistani Says: "Pakistan Zindabad" and for him there is no better place than Pakistan - what does that do? --- Leads to arrogance, egoism and racism and WAR! Is that what you really want? Just a genuine question - is nationalism the pride and arrogance for one's virtual non existent borders worth the hate and degradation of both countries?

You may disagree sister, that is within your right, my job as a Muslim sister in Islam, is to tell you the dangers of Nationalism because the Prophet salAllahu Aleyhi wa Salaam said regarding Assabiyah or Nationalism:" LEAVE IT - IT IS ROTTEN"

Furthermore, no one is telling you to "hate" India, sweetie. It is ok to like your home, but to start claiming India is the best is also pointing fingers at other peoples saying they are less than you. Fine if you like all the people of India and you want to be tolerant of them extend that tolerance to Pakistan, Kashmir, and the rest of the Islamic world, sister. May be I have misunderstood you, for that I am sorry, but I am sincerely trying to explain to you that your sentiments of crossing into the territory of nationalism is dangerous!

Trust me, the are powerless Pakistanis, despite what the Indian media may portray of them - obviously they are not going to say hey look at these poor Pakistanis who are getting shelled by America because of something they had no business in! "But what tha' hek lets just hug Big brother America for doing the Job for us!" After all before the 2000 attacks on Afghanistan, India and Pakistan were on the verge of another war, and America got involved just in time to stop that.
And when I was talking about the powerless Indians - I meant Indians regardless of their faith or ideology - since 30 percent of a nation that has a population of over 1 billion people (1,147,995,904) --- That is A LOT of powerless poor people!

No one is telling you to break the law of your nation darling, but consider the law of ALLAH! Those laws which teach us much more beautiful virtues and ideals than any other nation could ever have. InshaAllah you see through the scheme of things, and you realize how important it is to stay away from "nationalism' --- for it truly is filthy!

The argument that has begun from giving my reviews on Bollywood has gotten out of control - and I apologize, but I needed to let you know as a fellow Muslimah you loves all her brothers and sisters in Islam dearly be they white or black or red or yellow or Asian or African or White European!

I think it's best we leave it at that :) Much love Sister,
As'salaam Aleykum

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

@chica

Yes,
Maximum of the Indian films are dreamy, but then films in general are dreamy.. so that’s a different thing all together…

Yes, terrorism is being shown coz terrorism has happened.

And well, your roots your culture is Pakistani.. I understand..
But I don’t understand what dyu mean by saying that your heritage is in the land of Saudi Arabia ? ? ? ? ? ?
I assume you meant Islam. Coz Saudi Arabia is just a country… its history includes many things not in Islam. Remember the dark ages? The times of Jihalat?
Im sure you didn’t mean that is your heritage. And im sure you didn’t mean that your heritage is in a country that is not named after islam but after thre ruling family. And im sure you didn’t mean your heritage means the crimes committed by the arab sheikhs.
So I assume you meant islam.
Then yes…me too.. My culture, my roots are Indian and my heritage (or whatever the right word is) is Islam. There a lot many people who believe that an Indian cant be a Muslim.. for them I can only say they shud come to India, live among us and then pass judgments.

:) :) Im amazed and also happy to know that not many people out there are patriotic…. Makes me feel like wow, we (the patriotic ones) have such a rare feeling in us. :D :D
And well. When I talk of patriotism, I mean Indian patriotism. My patriotism is not dependent upon German patriotism or American patriotism. All it depends upon is Indian patriotism. So tell me what harm has Indian patriotism done to ‘the world around us’?
Has Indian patriotism made her invade Nepal?
Or Pakistan?
Or sri lanka?
Has she attacked a country (first) coz her people are patriotic????
If not, why cant I be patriotic? Why is Indian patriotism wrong? Just coz someone else’s patriotism had been wrong? ….lame reason in my opinion.
Love comes naturally.
Even for one’s country.
If it does not, I can only interpret it to mean that the country was lacking somewhere, she didn’t give enuf love, respect, rights to her people and so they don’t love her.
OR
The people are lacking somewhere that they cant love their country even though she gives them all the love respect and rights.
Absence of love means something is amiss coz if nothing is amiss, love is present… in hearts of flesh, I mean.
Aand of course, as individuals, we r different so our interpretations can very well be different.

Your grandparents left coz their ‘life was in dnger’.
Yes, there are many who DID NOT WANT PAK.. but were forced to go because of the circumstances that the Partition created… and well, WHO exactly created these circumstances? Christians??? Oh sorry! it was by the Buddhists!
The only thing that, in my opinion, the leaving of Muslims due to ‘life in danger coz of situation created by their own people’ suggests is that Pakistan was not all that highly desired nor all that highly needed in 1947. So again let’s not say how and why most of the Muslims didn’t move to Pak.

:) and yes. I repeat my bold statement. India is the best.
Yes there are many countries who have stood the test of time. Yes they may be claiming to be ‘the Best’ too. They are free to say that they are the best. I don’t mind it at all. Wel… then why not India??? Since there are other countries claiming to be the best, India should back off? ha?
We have those squads in schools right? And when there are inter-squad matches, the members of each team chant, “East or West my team is the Best”
They don’t chant, “May the best tem win. May the best team win”… nor “all teams are the best. All teams are the best”.. nor.. “none is the best. None is the best.”
They shout out, “east or west my team is the best”
And so.. I too say my team is the best.
If someone doesn’t feel his/her team is the best, I interpret it to mean that their team is so hopelessly bad.. that they feel ashamed in even thinking of calling it ‘the best’. Or thr are some emotional problems..
What I wrote bout patriotism.. consider it repeated…
And again.. interpretation differs from person to person.

Yes Islam teaches us humility and equality.
Islam tells us to love our neighbour even if he’s a non-Muslim, we owe him help, support and respect (until ill-treated ourselves). Then why not let me be ‘equal’ in my outlook?
Why tell me to turn a blind eye to the good in others?
Why tell me to turn a blind eye to the bad in my own people?
Why tell me to be equal wen I ‘demand’ from others, but not equal wen im to ‘give’?
Why this selective equality??????

And yes only Allah will judge us eventually and decide our final home for us. On that day it wont matter if you are Indian, Chinese, Polish or Icelandic!!!
Very true ..
So I again see no point in the creation of countries and separatist movements… :D
These people who so love ‘creating countries’ (in the name of Allah) should be made to realize.. that my dear ones! It doesn’t matter at all. Stop fighting to create countries. It doesn’t matter in the end. Live where you do. Any atrocity upon you by the kaffirs will be paid for. Isn’t it? then why create countries????
Wen God made man, he added the element ‘earth’…. Soil… matti…
Humans are not angels.
They are humans made of soil.
They err, rectify, err, rectify….
God created man to praise Him, but man does many things other than praising Him… and I don’t just mean the basic necessities of life.
God created the Ummah… and the Ummah lives in many countries, not in one.
The Ummah is zenith
But the nation is not zilch.
And if a nation is beautiful to me, I apply the same Islam that I follow and try to be beautiful to the nation, in return.
And since we r made of soil, we r pulled by soil (matti matti ko kheechta hai)…. And so the human need for countries (on the one hand) when Allah seriously does not care which country you belong to (on the other hand).

I love the Ummah.. and I never take shit from any non-Muslim. But, if you want me to talk bad bout anything Indian wen in reality it isn’t, im sorry. I wont do that. I don’t want to be a ‘namakharaam’. Im sure God has nowhere told us to be ‘bewafaa’.
That’s all I have been trying to say.

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

@ nida
Nationalism is a relatively recent phenomenon - since the 1920's and after WWI. Nationalism has created the illusion of 'confined borders' meaning a 'state' which is meaningless to most people living within those borders except in Europe where this idea actually made sense because they knew where majority of Germans, Anglo-Saxons, Salvs, Franks lived so they knew exactly where to make that 'line' which is non-tangible and non-existent. Now the Colonials tried to replicate that idea through out the world and it turned out to be a disaster! Why do you think Africa is in turmoil and in constant warfare?i already told you what nationalism means to an average Indian.
'natonalism' is an English word. and English is not the native language of most Indians. So, 'nationalism's origin is of no concern to me.
i told you wat a normal indian on the street of any indian city wud tell you.
if you are so keen in not taking this meaning, you may as well not. that exempts me too from taking ur concept or the 'original' concept of natiopnalism.

Nationalism has created the illusion of 'confined borders' meaning a 'state' which is meaningless to most people living within those borders except in Europeit makes sense within the norders of india. it has a lot of meaning to the people living within the borders of india. if you feel it doesnt in spite of my saying that it does, yoy are free to feel that way.



Here is the catch - Now an Indian will say: "Sara Jahaan se Acha Hindustan Hamara" while the Pakistani Says: "Pakistan Zindabad" and for him there is no better place than Pakistan - what does that do? --- Leads to arrogance, egoism and racism and WAR! Is that what you really want? Just a genuine question - is nationalism the pride and arrogance for one's virtual non existent borders worth the hate and degradation of both countries? plz read the reply to chica..

and where did i say that i mind wat a paki says.... sure they say that... sure they have histry text buks saying demonizing india pre-Partition, sure Musharraf says that Pakistan has won all the wars ever fought with India...

wen did i say that they cannot? very obviously they can....
so can i say all goody good bout india.
and bout hating pakistan.... well... in this very blog in a previous post i have written of how the second favourite place in this world for me is pakistan.
i have nothing against pakistan..... as long as it doesnt show the finger to me.
talks of pakistan started when you mentioned Veer Zaara in your post. telling it to be a Hindu Muslim love story... now since there are mmmmaaannnyyy hindu-muslim love stories, the onl difference i see here is being an indo-pak love story. that is why i told that it's very obvious India wud show it's better than Pak. in all sanity, pak wud never make a film showing how good an indian boy is and how a paki gal falls in love with him and moves there... (plz tell me if such a film exsts)... and so its crazy to expect india to do that.
the entire history was written here to say why India wud never make such a film.
coz India was broken.
wen you say that im wrong in sayin 'pakistan shudn exist here' coz it is that strange version of nationalism you r teling me bout... u dont seem to apply it to pak too... y did they want a nation??? a border which people living find meaningles... and if the borders of pakistan can be meaningful....
the borders of india that were altered shud also be meaningful.
i know every Muslim will be biased towards Pak... coz india is a non-muslim majority. but if yu apply 'haq' and luk at it wid an equal eye, u'd know wat im sayin.

You may disagree sister, that is within your right, my job as a Muslim sister in Islam, is to tell you the dangers of Nationalism because the Prophet salAllahu Aleyhi wa Salaam said regarding Assabiyah or Nationalism:" LEAVE IT - IT IS ROTTEN"
sure, leave it... but who started it?
you wrote one side of the bollywood portrayal of muslims.
you linked it to politics
i told you that it is not so... bollywood which represents india... is not biased yet... much of the average indian muslim will say that.
if anyone wud hav told something bout Pakistan or any other country for that matter, something that is not true.. i wud have been as disturbed... and here you, not related to india in any way, were passing judgments on indian things... was that in any way justice?
it is showing one side of a matter... telling half truth is more dangerous than telling a lie.
my country is not a muslim country fighting with another muslim country.... that newaz... its a fight within the ummah... among 'brothers'..
my country is mostly non-muslim, wen someone says that any part of my country , anything in my country is biased against muslims, which i think is not true... i shud speak against it. as otherwise, it reflects bad of me as a Muslim talking of 'equality' and all such big things...wen a muslim says bad bout india against islam, he is indirectly offending the hindus
coz they are the majority. and wen a hindu is not wrong, he shudn be crucified.
isnt that wat islam says???
look at both sides of the coin , weight the things as they happen.. is all i am saying...

Furthermore, no one is telling you to "hate" India, sweetie. It is ok to like your home, but to start claiming India is the best is also pointing fingers at other peoples saying they are less than you. Fine if you like all the people of India and you want to be tolerant of them extend that tolerance to Pakistan, Kashmir, and the rest of the Islamic world, sister. May be I have misunderstood you, for that I am sorry, but I am sincerely trying to explain to you that your sentiments of crossing into the territory of nationalism is dangerous!
yes.. you have misunderstood me.
coz im most tolerant of the islamic world....but isnt it amazing how the islamic world doesnt seem tolerant enuf... it doesnt seem to show the tolerance it so deeply demands from others.

be just in ur outluk. if a muslim is ok. Alhamdulillah!
but if a Hindu is ok, dont search for the bad in him and then hype it... wat you do to a hindu.. the hindu will do to you.
give others the respect they deserve and you will be given the respect you deserve.

Trust me, the are powerless Pakistanis, despite what the Indian media may portray of them - obviously they are not going to say hey look at these poor Pakistanis who are getting shelled by America because of something they had no business in! "But what tha' hek lets just hug Big brother America for doing the Job for us!" After all before the 2000 attacks on Afghanistan, India and Pakistan were on the verge of another war, and America got involved just in time to stop that.
And when I was talking about the powerless Indians - I meant Indians regardless of their faith or ideology - since 30 percent of a nation that has a population of over 1 billion people (1,147,995,904) --- That is A LOT of powerless poor people!
my comment on pakistan's power was sarcastic, i guess i didnt get through well...
and bout indian powerless people..
you meant all religions.. but since you hadnt shown much consideration to the non-muslims of india until then, i assumed u were still talkin bout ur 'brothers and sisters in faith'. am sorry for that one.


No one is telling you to break the law of your nation darling, but consider the law of ALLAH! Those laws which teach us much more beautiful virtues and ideals than any other nation could ever have. InshaAllah you see through the scheme of things, and you realize how important it is to stay away from "nationalism' --- for it truly is filthy!

you seem to pay no heed to wat I have told bout 'nationalism'... so, well.. let's not pay heed to wat u say, wen u r not taking into consideration the indian psyche.


The argument that has begun from giving my reviews on Bollywood has gotten out of control - and I apologize, but I needed to let you know as a fellow Muslimah you loves all her brothers and sisters in Islam dearly be they white or black or red or yellow or Asian or African or White European!
yes, this bollywood thingie got out of control .. coz it was told half by you.
all i wanted was the 'good' side to be told.
wen we say, oh palestinians went thru this and that, so its obvious they fite israel...i mean wen we so beautifully understand the pain of the Ummah....
we shud also, try to understand the pains of those not in the Ummah, coz after all we r humans. and above all we r muslims. we HAVE TO act right, we HAVE TO act just. any wrong action of any muslim shud be rectified, even if against a non-Muslim.
Muslims have done enuf bad to india, and Hindu Indians have done enuf good to the Muslim Indians... this needs to be told..
not by you... but by me, as an Indian Muslim.
you are free from this obligation as your perspective wud be only Muslim, like i told in my post...
but, me.. knowing the ground facts... if i keep mum.. thats really bad...
the good needs to be told as much as the bad.
that is wat i expect from a hindu, dont i?
so that is wat i shud give them.

i apologize that i made the argument so heated.. like i told it was coz i don believe that bollywood has been bad to us. each bad act of a muslim has been balanced by either a bad act by a hindu, or a good act by another muslim or showing how the muslims themselves suffer the most by what other muslims do.. and so, learn to differentiate between them.
i think it is pretty just.
and if anyone expects bollywood movies to show only good things bout muslims and show how bad hindus are(not that they are bad)....use ur heads.. y wud a bollywood movie do dat??? and that is why i reminded the history of india... and how in spite of that muslims are treated well.....

you mite not understand it coz u dont live in india.. but i do!
just like, im not able to get the hang of wat some people say bout nationalism.. coz growing up as an indian, nationalism has had a very beautiful meaning to me.

if a non-muslim has been good to me, inshaAllah i wud never be bad to him. and if someone says ki that non-muslim isnt treating muslims well.. inshaAllah i will point it out that such is not the case.
any non-muslim, any country.

Haq is very important to me...
and since i believe in Haq, wen i die and go to meet God, He'd ask me if i practised Haq... wat wud i say him? yes, dear God i practised Haq... selective Haq...

so, thats why all such arguments...
am sorry again.. and i sincerely apologize for having offended you... thats coz i too got offended. :p
and ya. let's leave it at that.
much love to you too.
walaykum assalam

Chica said...

you have got it really twisted... i am not telling you to turn a blind eye, or badnaam indians , or anything of the sort... where did i say that? my point is that it is a really bod state,ent that youre making and it is maybe being misconstrued as you thinking your nation, and hence your eople are 'the best' as in better than others. maybe you just need to be careful when saying such things because that is how it is being understood by others.

sweets, it ok to be proud of who you are and where you come from. I am... I am proud to be a 'stani and i love the culture, the clothes etc... but i am a muslim first... and i dont think any countyr people or language etc are the best or beter than anything or anyone else.

when i say my roots lie in saudi, i mean my fathers grandparents are saudi and his father was a daee who settled in india. where my grandparents were born and my dad oldest brothers, before they made the move to pak... my father was born a short time after. so i am a pakias thats where my father was born and bought up and my mothers prents are from kashmir!

as for not knowing about induan muslims... LOL my husband to be inshallah is an indian muslim! and so i know all about indian muslims culture the people etc... and the one thing i have always loved about him and his whole family is that they are muslims and are proud of thier background and thier heritage but they never turn around and think thier nation is beter than anyone elses!

being proud of who you are is one thing but please do take care when conveying what you are trying to say becuase as i said it can be misunderstood...

my apologies if i have said anything out of line or to offend - that is not my inteion sis.

love you for the sake of allah.

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

No sister, no one is misconstruing anything. That is precisely what i mean, india is the best. Better than others.

i have told already that i believe my country is the best but i have no problems if others feel that way bout their countries. . . I am not searching the blogosphere for people who are tellin that their countries are the best and fighting with them. But i think i have the full right to feel for my country as much love i wish to.
i have, in fact, shown my amazement when you told you are not that patriotic bout the countries you have lived in, coz i really believe that is the way any person should be. However, if you dont want to believe that way, you are free not to. . I didnt force my belief system on you, so i dont see why anyone should do that to me.

if my sayin 'india is the best' can irk people, i seriously cant help it.
i have explained myself well enuf, and i dont think there is any further explanation i can give, and i dont think i need to explain myself to anyone any more than i already have.

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

Sure, you dont believe your country or rather countries are the best, i can very well make out. Cool. . . You are free to believe you are not the best, i dont mind at all :) though i , based on my beliefs, feel that everyone person should consider himself to be the best. Judge yourself, improve yourself to be the best that you feel you are, but never ever feel there is anything better coz what you believe is what you become.
it is called a concept of 'SAUNDARYA BODH' and 'SHAKTI BODH' . . . Which is too vast a thing to explain here.
like i told, i found it strange that people could be non-patriotic, unpatriotic, dispatriotic, or whatever the word is.
but, goin by your claim of you not being patriotic, why have you taken offence at all after reading the comments to come back and show your displeasure (your first and second comments), why do you explain the stand of the movement of people into pakistan, and why do you bother whichever country's person calls her / his country the best. So, i really dont think there is lack of patriotism in anyone when questioned against their country, unless they hate it overtly.

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

Oh so you ARE of Arab orgin. :) well then you surely have saudi heritage. Sorry to think that you were trying to say Islam. :)

and congrats on havin found your soulmate, wish you a happy married life ahead ! But since when did marrying an Indian start giving certificates of a lifetime experience in India? ? So YOU KNOW ALL ABOUT INDIA, HER PEOPLE, AND CULTURE. . . ,:D :D :D lolz funny. . . :D :D Coz anyone who knows ANYTHING bout india wont ever claim to know it all :D languages change , cultures change every three-four hours journey. Dialects change, lifestyles change every one hour journey. so you know it all. Wow! Hats off to you. You have claimed something even Indians would think a hundred times before claiming. And how many days have you lived in India sister?

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

And yes good for your husband 2 B and you that he doesnt consider his country to be the best. . . Why should i follow his family? ? ? ? ? ? ? How many families do you want to hear of who DO believe India to be the best? Then, if you ever get a chance to visit India next ( or for the first time if you already havent), and if you care to know what the 'General feeling' is. . . You can find out , if you care to re-assess you COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE BOUT INDIA, HER PEOPLE, HER CULTURE. . .
and well, i dont know bout anyone else. But in my opinion, an indian who doesnt consider india to be the best in any way, an indian who doesnt 'feel' anything when any Indian thing is misinterpreted by other nationalities, then that person belongs to that 30% powerless indian group that sister nida spoke of . . .
and if an indian is now a NON RESIDENT INDIAN , i see no reason why he /she should consider India the best, . . . They should then be faithful to their NEW COUNTRY. coz living off one country and proclaimin the glory of another is cheap i guess. . . And if the person is not able to decide between the two, is torn apart and doesnt know where his loyalties lie, well i never asked anyone to leave, so cant really help in that one. People with two or more countries to themselves . . . Can they say any one country is the best.?. Dont know. . Coz i for one have always been an indian. . .
my family roots are in Peshawar from my father's side, and karachi from my mummy's side. . . My grandparents chose to stay back in india and not return to their native cities when those cities were handed over to another country even when their own lives were in danger too. . . .So, well my family is Indian by roots, by residence,by culture. . . I aint confused. And like i told previously i am NOT one of those people who have been so grossly wronged by that little Indian population who hates Muslims, to an extent that can make me go against the 'sare jahaan se achha' belief.
if there is someone in india who only parrot reading the song. . . Well. . . That doesnt make india a country full of parrots alone.

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

I am sorry too in having offended you. . . But please understand, it only HAS to happen that way.
i can either be diplomatic or take sides. . I try to show as little diplomacy as possible. So i end up offending people. Am sorry again.
and am also sorry for the reply in so many parts. . . Am accessing thru my cel. . . Its easier this way for me.

blog said...

I understand your point of view and have to say, simply, that there is a great difference between 'Islam' and 'Muslims'

However at the end it's 'Muslims' who show the values of 'Islam' so if they apply it right; they are showing Islam right but if they apply it wrong; they are showing the bad image of themselves -as persons- but since they are following Islam, media stereotyped this and attribute it to Islam.

In a nutshell; it's a problem of both Muslims who apply wrong and media that's sterotyped specially after 9/11.

Asha said...

Salaam Ukhti mermaid,

Sorry for not coming by more often on your blog! Hope that you are doing well there insyaAllah?

Wow, you actually listed down so many films that depict Muslims as terrorists. Surprised me actually to find that a number of films are starting to go in this direction. Yearrrrrss back, when I used to like watching Bollywood films once in awhile, they were mostly love stories and lots of dancing as well. I can't believe that they would resort to include politics in it as well.

Of course, the best advice would be: Just don't watch any! haha.. I refuse to watch Hollywood movies that are just plain biased towards Islam because, I feel like by watching you are accepting what they are presenting to you so to me, I stay away from any of such movies.

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

@blog
assalam brother
i agree with each word of urs brother.. :)
we need to act good.

@asha
wassalam ukhti :)
it's ok dear.. not a problem..
and well i read ur posts regularly.. but i cant comment coz u hav this different knd of template dat is not supported on my mobile... :(... even brother saafir's... i access mostly thru my cel nowadays... got exams... hope to start studying.. dont know a word of anything :(
and well, i think u got my post wrong....
sis Nida had pointed out a few films dat show Muslims as terrorists and so told dat bollywood is more biased than not.... i have tried to explain that bollywood isnt as biased as some people portray it to be..

tc dear...
love

oracle_22 said...

dhakkan ab chal yaha se...
tu dhakkan hi rahega

JaLpArI - tHe MeRmAiD said...

@ anyone who comes across this post

plz read the following post in "The Hindu"
http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/mag/2003/08/24/stories/2003082400340500.htmthe fact that this article is also a part of the media in my country gives me enuf reason to write the kind of post i have written.
:)

Gigi said...

Hi, How are you? Have a great weekend.

Mohamud said...

I am sorry that i haven't got the chance to read all the comments, but this seems to me the same old comments that people have made about Muslims... The only thing that need to be concern as Muslims is "Why do non-Muslims make as believe that we are the bad guys?" Let's see this in Bollywood the biggest starts are Muslims yet they all believe that Muslims are bad people... How come they never made a movies about true Muslim person fighting against the prejudice that Muslims are facing today in many countries....hmmm that is one thing we need to think about...Again if i may say this.. lets say that a Hinduism guy kills 30 people and a Muslim guy kills 10 people.. why do everyone point their finger to the Muslim guy... why not say Hindu terrorists instead of Muslim terrorist? Again that shows prejudice and we need to As Muslims look that deeper....

Thanks all

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